QSR1846/4/5/16/a

Depositions and examination - William Brown and James Webb for stealing one grey gelding value 20 guineas from Frederick Whitlock at Woburn on 16 July. [Annotated "Webb discharged"]

20 August 1846

From: 1846 To: 1846

Frederick Whitlock of Woburn, timber merchant – he occupies a field in the parish of Woburn near to the town. On 16th July he had a grey gelding in the field. On the morning of 17th July he was told it was gone. He found the fence broken and the gate thrown down with the hasp of the lock broken. About a fortnight later from information he received he went to the village of Fernham near Farringdon in Berkshire. His horse was in the possession of Wiliam Curtis, a horse dealer. The horse was in much worse condition, apparently jaded but not disfigured in any way. He stated 20 guineas as a low priced but values it at £30. He thinks at Fernham it looked £5 to £10 worse than when it was taken away. He as no doubt of the identity of the horse. William Curtis of Fernham (Berks), horse dealer – on 18 July a young man from the Woodman public house (kept by William King) told him he was wanted to look at a horse there. Two men met him in the yard. One was the prisoner, who calls himself William Brown. The other prisoner who calls himself James Webb was not the other man - though he looked similar he was not so stout. He observed that the man kept his left hand closed and used his thumb when putting money into his purse, and he sees Webb has lost two parts of two fingers of his left hand, but he is sure he was not the man. He is now told the other man’s name is John Dean. Dean asked if he had any cart horses. Brown said they wanted some aged horses at £10 to £12 each to work on the rail road. He said he did not have any. Dean said they had a horse that did not suit him, which had been bought as a tip horse for between £15 and £16, but would not draw by itself and in a team drew too much. Brown fetched the grey gelding and they tried to persuade him to buy it. He was reluctant as he thought he knew the horse and had heard he was not good in harness. In the end he agreed to buy the horse the next day for £12. He was not suspicious, except that the horse might be vicious or unsound. After the men went to bed he put the horse into a wagon and found he would not draw a dead weight. The next morning he told Brown and Dean he must see the horse draw. They put him in the wagon but he would not move. He then refused to give more than £10. They agreed. He offered a £10 note but Dean asked for a £5 note and 5 sovereigns instead. They were both strangers to him. He considers he gave a fair price for the horse in the state he was in. They said they had been working with him on the Oxford and Rugby Line. He did not discover the horse was stolen until 28 July. William Ralph Young of Woburn, police superintendent – he conveyed Brown to Bedford last Monday. Brown said “I never stole a horse. I did not know they were stolen. Dean is my master. If he brings me horses I don’t ask him where he gets them. Dean and I went to Brickhill about 4 or 5 o’clock in the day and Dean left me telling me to wait until he came back. Dean came back about 12 o’clock and brought with him a gray horse and told me to take it to Wantage which I did.” William Brown – he thinks it very hard to be committed for that horse. If it was stolen, he did not steal it. John Dean delivered it to him and he took it according to his directions and was paid by him for it. He did not see Dean from when he left him at Brickhill until he met him at Wantage. He has only been with Dean about 5 weeks. Dean has not sold many horses since he has been with him. Dean first hired him below Bury in Suffolk. To the best of his knowledge Dean lives there.

item

Brown, William,
Webb, James,
Whitlock, Frederick,
Curtis, William,
Young, William Ralph,
Dean, John

WOBURN, Bury St Edmunds, Fernham, horse theft, timber merchant, horse dealer, police superintendent