QSR1879/4/5/2-3/a

Depositions and examination- William Allen charged with stealing 5 bushels of flour value £1 15s from George Bates at Luton on 30 August 1879, and Thomas Hull charged wtih receiving the flour knowing it to be stolen.

17 September 1879

From: 1879 To: 1879

George Bates of Church Street, Luton, miller - Allen has been in his employ for 5 or 6 years and has been foreman for about 2 years. As foreman his duty was to deliver stuff and give delivery tickets from a book (produced) and to fill up a counterfoil. There are some counterfoils relating to Hull including one on 30 August 1879 which says Hull had 8 bushels of wheat ground, that Hull paid 8d and Allen paid that over to him. They rarely grind grist for anyone – they try to do away with that as much as they can. They sometimes do it to oblige customers but as a rule it is discouraged. He has spoken of it to his servants. He knows Hull by sight. Hull has not been a customer of his. From information he received on Monday 8 September he obtained a search warrant against Hull. He went to Hull’s premises with PS Rogers. They found the two parcels of flour produced upstairs in the bedroom, standing along the foot of the bed. He has taken a sample from the flour produced and it corresponds with their usual make of household flour. He believes it to be his. There is exactly 5 bushels, value 35s. The counterfoil of the delivery ticket is in Allen’s handwriting. Allen was at work until the evening of Monday 8 September. He has not discharged Allen, who did not come to work on Tuesday. [Cross-examined] Hull’s house has 2 rooms down and 2 rooms up. He should have thought to find flour downstairs. Some may keep theirs upstairs. There is a place downstairs at Hull’s where it appeared such things were kept as there was a lot of sacks. Allen knows he protested against grist being ground. Allen was in charge of the mill during his absence. Joshua Spooner of 13 Union Street, Luton – he is a stone dresser at Mr Bates’s mill. He knows Allen who was formerly foreman, superintending the work and delivering goods out of the mill. During the last week in August he had some conversation with Allen. Allen said that when he came back from dinner a man had brought 7 bushels of wheat but he had lost it and could not find it. Nothing more was said until Saturday 30 August. When he came back from dinner he saw 2 parcels of flour got ready, in 2 sacks which looked to be about 5 or 6 bushels in the two. One was marked Titmuss Wheathampstead and the other marked Simons Harpenden. He believes the sacks produced are the same as they are marked the same. He saw Hull between 5 and 6 in the afternoon. He was in the yard against the door leading out of the yard into the mill. Hul had a horse and cart. He saw the 2 sacks of flour in the cart. Allen stood against the door with Hull. He saw Allen take some money from Hull. [Cross-examined] He does not know what money was paid. They often get spare marked sacks. Charles Rogers of Luton, police sergeant – on Monday 8 September 1879 he received a search warrant to search Hull’s premises. He went there with Bates and found the two bags of flour upstairs at the foot of the child’s bed. He saw Hull the same night in Luton and asked if he was in the habit of taking wheat to Mr Bates’s to be ground. He said he was and took 9 bushels there a little over 3 weeks ago. He asked Hull what it consisted of. Hull said “4 bushel of what his wife glean’t last harvest and the other five he bought of Mr Toyer of Aley Green’s”. He took Hull into custody and charged him with receiving stolen flour. Hull made no reply. On 9 September he had a warrant to apprehend Allen. He went in search of Allen and found that he had absconded. Next morning he apprehended Allen about 6am at his house, he having just come home. He took Allen into custody and charged him. Allen said “is that al”. He said it was. Allen said “well, they’ve accused me of taking a great deal of stuff but I declare this is the only lot I have ever took and that I admit”. On that day while conveying Allen from Court House to the cells Allen said “I know that was the flour as soon as I saw it stand there”. David Wootton of Luton, police constable – he is in charge of the police station at Luton. On Wednesday 10 September Allen said to him voluntarily “I don’t see why I should bear all the blame when there is another as bad as myself”. Allen was about to say more he but stopped him by cautioning him. Allen then made a statement which he wrote down. It is annexed hereto and marked “A” [see QSR1879/4/5/2-3/b] George Toyer of Aley Green (Herts), farmer – he knows Thomas Hull and has never sold him any corn. He has never sold him 5 bushels of wheat. [Cross-examined] He has had dealings with Hull and has sold him several things, but never anything you could make into flour. George Scrivener of Leagrave near Luton – he works with the threshing machines. He knows both Hull and Allen and was formerly in the employ of Mr Bates. He left one Saturday afternoon about 3 months ago. Three or four weeks ago he was on the Dunstable Road. He saw Hull driving, got up with him and had some conversation with him. Hull asked where he worked. He said he worked for Mr Bates. He asked how Mr Bates sold his corn. He said “as cheap as other people, I think”. Hull asked if he thought he could get a little better stuff to put with it if he bought some. He told Hull he must see Allen. Hull asked when to come. He said he had seen people come on Tuesdays and Fridays. Mr Bates is not usually at home on those days. Next day he had some conversation with Allen about Hull. He saw Hull a few days later in Mr Bates’s yard with his horse and cart. About a week later he was having his dinner in the engine room. Allen came to him and asked him to go and help shoot two sacks of oats. He shot the 2 sacks into some more sacks and carried them to the inside of the mill and then to Hull’s cart. Allen carried one and he carried one. He then went into the engine room again. A day or two afterwards he had some conversation with Allen and Allen gave him 3s. Allen said it was for the oats. The next time he saw Hull was when he came up the yard a week later. Allen told Hull to put his cart against the loading door. He saw the sacks come out and go into the cart. They looked like the ones produced, with about as much in them. Allen said there was 7 bushels of grist. He saw Allen again in the evening. Allen gave him 5s for the grist Hull had. [Cross-examined] He never sent to Hull on the next Friday. He first saw Hull when he was going home one night. He told Allen Hull talked of coming. He did not say anything to Allen about Hull. Allen sent him half a sack of flour about a month ago. He told Allen to send a ticket with it. Allen said he would not, and he has never paid for the flour. He said he was going to Houghton. He did not ask Allen to put a half sack flour up for him that day. William Allen – he admits he is guilty and is very sorry for it. Thomas Hull – he did not know it was stolen

item

Allen, William,
Hull, Thomas,
Bates, George,
Spooner, Joshua,
Rogers, Charles,
Wootton, David,
Toyer, George,
Scrivener, George

LUTON, Luton Church Street, Luton Union Street, Aley Green, LEAGRAVE, stealing, receiving stolen goods, flour, miller, police sergeant, police constable, farmer