Z1205/259

Female. Archivist at Woburn Abbey b.01.10.1951 Side A (00 mins)Born in Manchester. Went to local school, then got a scholarship to grammar school. Went to Newcastle for her first degree, started with Geography, hated it, studied Archaeology, got degree in History. Got a bursary to study Archive Administration at Bangor University in North Wales. First job was at Northumberland Record Office for nearly three years, followed by seven years at Durham Record Office. Left work to have children (two). In 1985 moved to Bedfordshire. For eight years did not go out to work, staying at home looking after the family. A part time Archivist job was advertised at Woburn Abbey. She applied, went to be 'interviewed' had lunch in the Canaletto Room. No discussion on pay or conditions took place but she started work three weeks later in September 1992. (05 mins)Has enjoyed her work ever since, but still a lot to do and learn. The actual collection of personal political papers of the Dukes of Bedford dates back to Henry Eighth. Over the years Estate material has been deposited in various Archives. There is a lot in Bedford & Luton Archives. In Devon there is also a huge collection, the London material is in Covent Garden and there is a small collection in Hampshire. One of her main duties is to deal with the modern records, a lot of which still needs to be catalogued in detail. Another was to create a computerised record management system from scratch. She researched the best system packages at the time when this technology was still in its infancy. After six months she adopted the Museum Association System (Cambridge). It took 18 months to set up. She is very pleased with it as she is able to customise it to the Abbey's requirements. (10 mins)The main problem is that there are still a lot of records being produced, but it is difficult sometimes to refer to past records because they are spread out in a lot of different Archives. In 1968 they started to send records to the local Bedford Archive, the last material deposited in 1989. Since then the policy has been to keep the records intact at Woburn. However at the Abbey there is no large space dedicated to storing the Archive, so it is all dotted around in various places. There is planning approved for a purpose-built new archive at the Abbey. The Estate and the family are quite forward thinking in their approach to tackling modern records and looking ahead to the future regarding archives. (15 mins)Dukes from the past to the present have been interested in a vast range of subjects and the records dealing with them should be in the same archive and available at the Abbey. Public access can only be on a very limited basis. This is not a resource for the general public, only limited academic searches are encouraged. However because a lot of the records are already in the public domain there is no restriction on them. The general public's interest is in researching their family ancestors through the servants' records but the only record kept at the Abbey is the date of starting and finishing employment. (20 mins)Regarding the 'closed access' period the Abbey has its own rules. In public records it is normally 30 years. For the Abbey records it has been extended to 100 years. Sometimes, if it is not sensitive material some academics are allowed to look at 'recent' material with the approval of the Duke. The advantage of doing this is that we are all able to learn from the published material. However, the Archivist makes the point " what is the use of keeping such wonderful material if no-one is then allowed to see it?" 25 mins)The Abbey takes a lot of money to conserve. Every ten years the stone work has to be refaced, being made of a soft stone it becomes pitted very easily. The income from visitors does not cover the upkeep so they have diversified into leisure. The family has never been involved in industry having dealt mainly in agriculture and property. The job of the archivist has become more and more involved over the years. Initially she was given documents from each Head of Department immediately at the end of their dealings. Now she receives documents three months after they have been signed. (30 mins) When she first started the job shouldering all the responsibility worried her very much. After six weeks on the post she was asked to produce a report on what to do for the future. At the time it seemed a huge task, especially because she did not have any help. (32 mins) End of Side A Side B (00 mins)The best way to tackle her job is to divide it into small "tranches" in order to make it more manageable. She would not be able to sleep at night if she had to think about all the tasks she still needed to accomplish. For the day-to-day running of the archive she has complete control. She has to ask the Duke's permission and explain, when a major researcher asks to come to look at the paper say for a book. If somebody wants to do research just for a thesis she has been given discretion to decide by herself. She does keep the Duke informed on what kind of research or books have been produced. A set of ground rules for researchers was put in place when she first started. (05 mins)She has been very happy in her post, although she had to adapt to a different way of working from what she was used to in the public sector. Whereas some local families have worked for generations for the Abbey and therefore for them there was less of an adjustment to be done when starting work. One aspect that new comers to posts find difficult to deal with is the paternalistic attitude of the family towards present and past employees (some newcomers do not stay more than 12 months). When big decisions have to be made these cannot be made without the Duke's family input. This has the effect of slowing down the decision making process. (10 mins) Six months after starting work at the Abbey an employee can enter into the pension scheme. There is no militancy or Union representation. In general if anyone has a problem they can speak to a Head of Department. If the problem is not resolved, the Duke or his family are very approachable. Only for the last two years has there been a personnel department. In the case of sickness, people just got paid - there was no statutory sick pay form to be filled. The Duke or his family were known to pay for employees operations when and if they need it. Now statutory Health & Safety and Personnel are in place. Attitudes and perceptions are changing especially with new staff coming into the area. (15 mins)Now there is a work hierarchy in place which deals with all sort of eventualities. She feels that as a result the Duke and his family will be less accessible in the future. Some of the family members who have been educated in America are used to informality e.g. Lord James Russell went to Stanford Business School in America, works there now and he signs himself Jamie Russell. Some times when members of the family are having an informal lunch in the pantry she does get invited while on the way to the Archive room. The conversation is kept very informal, as it is also at some of the Trustee or Head of Departments Meeting lunches. (20 mins)Lord Tavistock used to like to go to lunches anywhere even at MacDonalds. When the family appeared in a three parts television programme "A Country House" a lot of people wrote in to express their satisfaction. Those letters have been kept in the Abbey Archive. The present Duke is making the Abbey his family home. The Abbey is owned by Trustees and the Duke leases the private apartments from them. This system was put in place by the 7th Duke before he died in 1861 so as not to pay massive Death Duties. Trustees meet every quarter to decide about finances. The day to day running of the Abbey is left to the Duke and his family and to their staff. (25 mins)At the moment the trustee are Sir David Saiff, he is part of Marks & Spencer family, Lord Walferson, owns Great Universal Stores and the Honourable Charles Cayzer a businessman. In the 18th & 19th centuries the Duke owned the 'Honour of Ampthill' including Houghton which had came in to the family via the Bruce Family. There was quite a lot of land, all agricultural, from within the Marston Vale owned by the Duke (Marston, Lidlington, Milbrook).The kiln at Husborne Crawley which was used to produce bricks for the wall surrounding the Abbey, was the only industrial involvement by the Duke apart from some tin mines in Devon. In order to pay Death Duties a lot of land had to be sold from 1890's to 1920s and also in the 1950's. There were some Stocks & Shares in the Russian Railways, which were lost with the revolution. The Estate has shrunk over the years. The Devon Estate went on Death Duties from 1911 to 1959's. The rent from Bloomsbury helps to sustain the rest of the business. (32 mins) End of Side B CONTINUED ON CS259C2* (00 mins)A lot of the land is managed from the Abbey, although there are some tenant farmers. The Abbey still deals with forestry, and more business has come in through the leisure industry. She does not know of any new development at the Abbey. However Woburn Enterprise Ltd was set up a year ago to develop the leisure side of the Abbey, which will include all of the aspects from catering to marketing. There is continuity at the Safari Park with more emphasis on breeding and education. The new Marquise Course over the Golf Club has bee refurbished. She sees this as consolidation time. (05 mins)The biggest change she has experienced in her life time is computerization. In the early 70s when she started her work there was no one using computers in archives and the thought of doing it was mind boggling. Even in the 1990's there was still some resistance. She belongs to the Society of Archivist and she keeps in touch with the latest innovation and changes. In the past she feels that there was some kind of elitism as regarding access to Archives, she is pleased that now there is more open mind and accessibility. She is hoping that one day Archives will be used just like public Libraries. She appreciate this Oral History Project as a good experience for the general public to get involved and then to visit the archive to see it all. Changes in attitude towards Archives have already taken place in the last 30m years. There is need more. (10 mins) End of Side A End of Interview Original Interview 70 mins.

6 February 2004

From: 1950 To: 2004

item

Canaletto,
MacDonalds,
Saiff, David, Sir,
Marks & Spencer Ltd,
Cayzer, Charles, Honourable,
Walferson, Lord

archivist, HISTORY, computers, planners, domestic servant, stonemason, AGRICULTURE, HEALTH & SAFETY, trusts, farms, forests, LEISURE ACTIVITIES, Woburn Abbey, Manchester, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, City of Durham, Devon, Covent Garden, Hampshire, HUSBORNE CRAWLEY, Bloomsbury