Z1205/229

Male. Italian, former prisoner of war, brickworker, now living in Italy. b. 18.11.1919 (00 mins)Bourn at Paullo in the Modena region of Italy. Lived in a small village, Verica. Went to elementary school there, then started to work with his family, on their crop-sharing farm on the Apennine mountains. Grew corn and other crops, had 15 cows and a dairy. Intensive labour to feed cows, which were kept in the shed for fear of them eating a dangerous grass (Spanish grass) that would make them swell up and die. Oldest brother was able to rescue cows if accidently had swalled grass, but it was very hard work. (05 mins)His parents had 17 children, 4 died, 9 boys, 4 girls grew up. Lived in a house made of stones, there were no comforts like now, toilet was in the fields, water in the winter was kept in the cow shed (up to 300 lit) so as not to get frozen, but warm to have a wash. (10 mins)A typical day would be to get up at dawn, clean cow shed, feed, water and milk cows. Breakfast would be ready at 6am, fresh wheat pastry made every day by his mother on the fire, accompanied by little ham or salami. Sunday a big pot of milk, coffee and bread. His mother was happy to have all those children, because she was never on her own. (15 mins)However he does recognise that looking after all those children must have been a very hard work for his mother. The washing and the mending was particularly heavy going. His mother used to fell asleep by the fire in the evening wile mending their clothes. The two oldest girls helped with the weekly bread making, polenta making and every day cooking. One of the winter crop was chestnut, they were drier over slow fire for 25-30 days to make a fine flour used just like wheat flour. Some were roasted, the bad ones were given to the pigs. (20 mins)The chestnut once dried and cleared of the skin, were taken to a mill were there was a special grinder for them. His family used to collect some 4 tonnes of fresh chestnuts and turn some 1,200 kilos into flour. Dishes made from chestnut were not usually eaten in the morning. (25 mins)At that time they eat sufficiently but there was shortage of a lot of things. People in general were poor. His family had some land and a pig to kill in the winter. This provide them with fat, bacon, sausages and hams, although a little for each. Worker who had no land were worst off. A small pot of milk was kept for the family the rest was made in to Grana and Parmigiano cheese, this was all sold at the end of the summer, finally to get the money from the sale of the milk. The price of milk was very low. There was a real crisis from 1927 to 1932. In 1934-5 it started to rise a little due to the beginning of the war. Another big crop was acorns from oaks, for pigs. When cooked were also a good feed for cows.End of side A Side B (00 mins)Another crop was grapes, which was used mainly to make red wine for their own consumption. They used grapes originated from Tuscany, some 500-600 kilos, and made the wine themselves. After the grapes were squashed, were left to ferment with all the skin in for few days, then it was pressed and left to ferment for longer. After racking couple of times it was ready to drink. To work on a farm in the mountains was less hard work because in the winter months there was only the cows to look after, no work could be done in the fields because of the snow. (05 mins)There was dancing and skiing in the Winter. There was a big field near the cow shed. Children used to start by sliding on the ice on the road, then some would make their own skis in wood, some would ask a carpenter to make them. He made his own skis. On the main road there were snow-plower the rest was done with the shovels. At 13 he started to go to dances. In Verica there were after work activities organized by the Fascist regime. A small band provided the music for couple to dance waltzes, polka, tango. He learned by watching and practising. In England he danced at London Astoria Dance Hall and Tottenham Dance Hall. (10 mins)People used to organise dances in their own homes too, usually by asking friends to play some instruments for few coins. Dances started around 8 pm after supper and finished soon after midnight. Now youngsters drive for miles to go to dances, they start at 1ma and finish in the morning. Girls did not go dancing on their own, usually were in groups, or accompanied by one mother or an old lady. There was no formal request to dance, just a nod by the boys, never by the girls. People looked forward to dances, there was not a lot to do then. Sunday morning going to church, in the afternoon praying together and school during the week. His life changed when he went to do military service. He went to Mantova to start, then on to the Alps at the board with France on mount Variasco. He was part of the gunners against air attacks. (15 mins)There the war started, there was a battle. In his group there were 5 deaths during that battle. France was occupied by the Germans. His team came down from the mountains and went to Rome, then to Naples. On the 26 June 1940 he was sent to Africa. Landed at Benghazi, went to the board there were attacked by the British force, they retreated to Bardia. They were under siege for 25 days, then on 5 Jan 1941 were taken prisoners. There were 27.000 prisoners, a very long file to cross the desert. (20 mins)Took 3-4 days on foot to cross the desert, got to Solonbasso. There was shortage of water. One evening he laid down and felt he was going to die. One of his mate gave him some water and saved his life. They were on the beach, dug holes hoping the water would be suitable for drinking, but no, it was salty. (25 mins)At the start of war, they had been given water filtering equipment, but they did not work. 50 got sent in an old barge used to transport tar. There was no food, no water and no WC facility. They were on the barge for three days. When finally they got to Allessadria D'Eggitto on disembarking two men die immediately for drinking too much water. The Polish army was there with bayonets on the ready allowing them only one flask each of water. In the evening they were given earth were dish full of food and a big white bread roll. They felt they had reached America. End of Side B Continues on CS229C2 (00 min.)From Alassadria D'Egitto by train they left for Ismelia near the Suez Canal. There they stayed until 24th March. It was very hot during the day and very could at night. Conditions were bad, they only had three biscuits and some tea in the morning. They spent all day under the sun. Prisoners were sent away to places, some go sent to India. His group of 500 was taken to Port of Suez and boarded The Duchess of Bedford. They stopped for one day at Eden on the Red Sea. Very little to eat, just subsistence and under the sun all day. Landed in Durban in South Africa. There was a camp near the city, before they went in they were made to strip, shaved all over, de-loused, and showed with a strong jet to pierce their skin. (05 mins)All had to collect their sterilized, clean clothes, his were lost. A South African soldier gave him a towel. He was left like that for eight days. His feet were in tatters he had no shoes. He was in the tent with seven other men. Were given metal plates, but very little to eat. All turned the plates into bowls. There was plenty water to drink. Easter came. (10 mins)He was given some trousers and army woman's shoes and left camp. By train for Pietermaritosburg, stopped there a little, then on to Johannesburg. There, they were meet by local farmers with gallons of milk & coffee. On to Pretoria were extra coal engines were put on the train to claim the mountains. Stopped at Zonederwater at midday, made to line up and give handful of cigarettes by South African women' army. Neapolitans soldiers got hold of woman soldier & boxes of cigarettes, created chaos, not all got cigarettes. In the camp they were divide in 12 squadrons, he was part of the 12th. (15 mins)Stayed in Zonederwater for 15 months. Nothing to do, formed foot-ball teams and athletic team. Had little to eat. The weather was warm, but there were very bad and dangerous thunder storms. Their only duty was to keep the tent and themselves clean. (20 mins)He preferred to be there than on the war front. He feels hard done by the treatment he received as soldier by the Italian Government. They were not properly clothed to go to the mountains or to Africa, had the same clothes. The same uniform that belonged to a gigantic first world war soldier, he had to have it made to measure by a dressmaker in Mantova. When he got to Africa he cut the trousers to make them into a shorts. He feels he had more medical attentions as prisoner than as soldier. 25 mins)Left South Africa on 15 July 1942 on board an old boat the Ordona Liverpool. The sea was very rough especially from Durban to Cape City. There were 500 on board. They did not know were they were going. When they got to Liverpool it was dark. Were given more injections and cigarettes. Were taken to Bedford on to a prisoners camp on the Kimbolton road, 2-3 miles outside the town, just after a big bend on the road. Now it has been built over, it was on the left. There were about 1,000 just Italians. End of side A Side B (00 mins)From the camp they were take to work in the fields every morning by WAF girls drivers, and collected in the evening. He first went to Barton Le Clay to collect potatoes. They were watched by a man on the horse. At lunch time they stopped, lit a fire from the potatoes plants, roasted a lot of potatoes cooked their ration of beacon and eat it with a slice of bread from the camp. After that he was sent to Kettering to an elderly couple. The man was blind from the Boar War. (05 mins)He was always welcomed in the morning with food & drinks, then told the duties of the day. He did all the jobs that needed to be done on the land. At lunch he was called in to eat with them, always nice and plenty. He learned to understand English long before he could speak. Learned to read by following the foot-ball result on the sport paper. He had a very bad first impression of Liverpool. Liked Bedford faund it clean. Another prisoners camp was opened in Kettering. He no longer went to work for the nice couple, he missed them a lot. (10 mins)Then he used to be taken to various places, Ampthill, Silsoe, Streatly. Then two friend asked him if he wanted to work for Mr Carter. (15 mins)For 32 months he never had any news form his family. In 1942 after 3-4 months in England he got a letter. He learned that he had three of his brother prisoners in Germany. Luckily they all came back after the war. At the Carter Farm he was treated well, he was with two other. With Carter junior he spend 6 month per year harvesting corn, a very dusty job (20 mins)Prisoners started to be sent back home, some were offered to stay for one more year. He was not sure in what state were in his home town, he decide to stay for longer. (25 mins)At the end of January 1950, he returned to Italy. It was 10 years since he had not seen his family. Left from Victoria station to Dover. From Cale` got a train to Milan, his brother and his family went to meet him the station, but they did not recognise each other, but only from his suitcase which had a label from London. End of Side B 229C3 (00mins)To go back home after 10 year and after the war, all seamed ugly broken down. Men unshaved in Milan. His home village had been bombed, houses and road still showed the damage. There was a lot of snow. He did not want to stay, his family and friends wanted him there. He stayed until 23rd March, he had to coming back his permit was expiring. Went to work for Bovril in Ampthill. (05 mins)Bovril factory was situated near the remains of Houghton House. There were little black cows used to make the Bovril. He looked after the land part time. He took some land near Harold on his own to work, he used to go there on his motor bike. At Bovril he was happy but earned little money, £3 per week. So he got a job at London Brick Company to work on the coal bunker. There he had a good wage of £8-9 per week. A lot of Italian worked started to arrive in the 1951-2. (10 mins)At the London Brick Company he was asked to be an interpreter, he was given a little office with telephone and called when needed by the foremans. There were 3700 workers there, 17 kilns, for every kiln there were 80 chambers and one foramens for each chamber. He had to run every were he was called. He did not like be an interpreter, the Italians on the presses were dissatisfied and moaning all the time. He used women workers on the presses as good example of behaviour. !5 mins)He was asked by the Italian Vice-Consul Luigi Conte, to manage the Italian Club in Spencer Road. The arrangement included free lodging, the club was opened at Lunch -time from 12 to 2pm, a woman was there to look after the Club. He came back from the brick work at 5 to open the Club at 6pm. Italian families used to hire the hall for private celebrations. (20 mins)Wile there in 1958 he got married and had a daughter in 1959. In 1961 went to Italy to visit his family, they convinced him to remain there with his family. He came back on his own, sold the house and went back to Italy to live there. His parents were old by then the land was too much for them to look after. He feels he returned to Italy for his parents sake. (25 mins)He worked very hard for number of years, got very tired, lost the enthusiasm to go back to England. Bought a big house and renewed it all. He feels that if he was still young he would have liked to go back to England. He feels that life was ideal there, with plenty work about. Labour Exchange chasing him to give him work. Land was easier to work there because there are very big fields with no trees in the way. In Italy there are too many plants like fruits and vine-grapes in the way. End of Side A Side B (00 mins) He remembers with fondness a friend he had in England. They used to visit each other every year. He died and since then he has not been back to England. His wife still visit his friend's wife and are a good company for each other but he misses him very much. END OF SIDE B Original Interview155 mins

23 May 2003

From: 1915 To: 2003

English. + Italian

item

Bovril,
London Brick Company,
Conte, Luigi

Italians, prisoners of war, brick worker, immigration, farm worker, dairy, cattle disease, water supply, food, HOUSEHOLD, crops, cheese, wine, dancing, skiing, gender issues, CHURCH, DEATH, German Army, Polish, rationing, football, climatology, clothing, LANGUAGE, Red Cross, harvesting, World War Two, employment of women, interpreter, Italian Club, tobacco, Modena, Paullo, Verica, Mantova, France, Rome, Naples, Africa, Benghazi, Ismailia, Suez Canal, India, Durban, South Africa, Pietermaritzburg, Pretoria, Liverpool, Bedford Kimbolton Road, BARTON-LE-CLAY, Kettering, AMPTHILL, SILSOE, Germany, HARROLD, Al Bardi, Sollum, Alexandria, Port Suez, Johannesburg, Aden, Zonderwater