QSR1899/2/5/1

Depositions of Elizabeth Newell of Oakley; Sarah Eve Taylor of Clapham; Martha Elizabeth Dudley Black, confectioner of 173 Tavistock Street Bedford; Henry James Grice, Master of the Sub Post Office of 81 Tavistock Street Bedford; Hubert Clarke, sorting clerk of 18 Bower Street Bedford; Walter Robert Lunnis, Police Constable of Bedford; Samuel Norman, Groom of Oakley in the case against Samuel Norman accused of stealing three postal orders total value of nineteen shillings, the property of the Postmaster General.

18 February 1899

From: 1899 To: 1899

Elizabeth Newell said: I am the wife of Edward Newell who is the Sub-Postmaster at Oakley. Ours is not a Money Order Office but we do give out Postal Orders. I keep the Postal Orders in a cash box behind the shelf in the Post Office. On Tuesday the 14th about 5.30 I looked over our Postal Orders and I saw the 3 postal orders produced (marked A B & C) amongst the other forms. They then had no writing upon them. On Wednesday the 15th about 1.30pm I again looked at my orders and I found that the 3 orders produced (A B & C) were missing. I next saw the Order “C” on Sunday the 19th produced by Police Constable Lunniss. the other 2 orders I had not seen again until today. It is not my signature or the stamp of our office on the Order “A”. I did not authorise anyone either to sign or stamp it in that way. I have not been paid for any of the 3 orders. I paid 19shillings and 3pence to the Bedford Post Office for the 3 Orders. On Friday the 17th inst in the evening the Prisoner came to our Post Office. He then purchased the 10shilling Order produced marked D. I signed and stamped it. Sarah Eve Taylor said: I am the wife of William Taylor, the landlord of “The Swan” at Clapham. On Saturday the 18th inst the Prisoner called at my house sometime between 11 and 3 o’clock. He ordered a glass of beer and I supplied him. He then asked if I would cash him a small order. I asked the amount. He produced the order marked “C”. I looked at it and he said “It’s allright.” I gave him 4shillings for it. He asked me to cash another one. I said I could not as I was short of change. He said he should have to cash it at Bedford. On Sunday last I handed the order “C” to Police Constable Lunnis. Martha Elizabeth Dudley Black said: I am a Confectioner at 173 Tavistock Street Bedford. On Saturday 18th the Prisoner called at my shop between 5 and 6 o’clock. He asked for 3pence of sweets. I gave him them. He asked if I would cash him a postal order for 5shillings. He handed me the order “B”. I said the stamp of the issuing office looked rather strange. “Is it right”. He said “Yes just as it was given to me.” I handed him 4shillings 9pence change. On Monday the 20th I gave the Note to Police Constable Lunnis. Henry James Grice said: I live at 81 Tavistock Street Bedford and am Master of the Sub Post Office there. On Saturday 18th about a quarter to 5 o’clock in consequence of what my assistant said I went into the Post Office. I saw the Prisoner there. He handed me the Order “A”. I said I could not cash it. He asked why. I said because it was the number of an order that had been stolen. I pointed out the irregularity in the stamp. I don’t remember he made any remark. I asked how he obtained it. He said a Gentleman met him in Clapham and asked him if he could oblige by cashing a 10shilling order and as he had some loose silver he did so. I then asked him if he would accompany me down to the Head Office in High Street. He did so. Going down he asked me if I thought he would have to lose it. I said I was afraid he would. When we got to the Head Office we saw Hubert Clarke. Mr Clarke asked Prisoner his name and address. He gave his proper mane and address and said he was going to Harlington and a little further on. I left Prisoner there. Hubert Clarke said: I live at 18 Bower Street Bedford. I am sorting clerk at the Bedford General Post Office. The last witness and the Prisoner came down to the Post Office on Saturday afternoon the 18th. Mr Grice showed me the 10shilling order now produced marked “A” and said the Prisoner had brought it and had asked him to cash it. I asked Prisoner where he got it from. He said he met a Gentleman at Clapham who asked him to cash it for him and having some change in his pocket he did so. I asked him for the description of the Gentleman. He said “a tall Gentleman dressed in black, middle aged, with a ring on the 3rd finger of the left hand.” I asked Prisoner for his name. He gave it and said he was a Groom for Mr Horrel of Oakley. He said he was going to Tebworth by the 5.45 and should be back by 9.5 on Monday morning and then he would call in and see the Post Master. I called in a Detective of the Borough Police and ascertained that he had given a correct name and address. I then let him go. The stamps on the 3 Notes A B & C are not stamped with the proper office stamp. I do not know such a person as “C Thompson” at the Luton Post Office. Walter Robert Lunnis said: I am a member of the Beds Constabulary stationed at Bedford. On Saturday night the 18th inst from information I received I went to Hockliffe and on the next morning I proceeded to Tebworth. At 8 o’clock in the morning I went to a house at Tebworth where Prisoner’s wife is living. There I found the Prisoner. I searched his coat and found some papers and the Postal Order “D”. I said “I shall arrest you and charge you with stealing Postal Orders from Oakley Post Office”. He said “ I am willing to come I am innocent of this. I can prove everywhere I have been.” He laid some silver on the table. About 9 or 10shillings. I arrested him and walked with him from Tebworth to Harlington station. On the way he said “I did not steal the Orders my Landlady can prove where I was.” He did not give any further information. He said “A man asked me to buy them at Clapham on Saturday afternoon. He was a man standing about 5 feet 11 dark complexion, shaven, and wearing a dark moustache, dark clothes, wearing a ring on his 2nd finger on his right hand.” I went to Clapham on the Sunday 19th and got from Mrs Taylor the order marked “C”. I went to Oakley the same day and found the packet of papers produced marked “G” in the same state it is in now. On Monday the 20th I received from Miss Black the order marked “B”. Samuel Norman said: I am Groom to Mr Robert Horrel of Oakley. On Saturday last the 18th inst I had permission to go home until first thing on Monday morning. As I was walking along the road on the Saturday about 100 yards on this side of the Fox and Hounds at Clapham I met a gentleman. He asked me if I could oblige him by changing 3 Postal Orders. I said “I would if I could”. He then produced the 3 Orders “A” “B” & “C”. I gave him 19shillings. He gave me 3pence back. I went to the “Swan” at Clapham and changed one. I changed the one for 5shillings in Tavistock Street Bedford and the other one I took to the Sub Post Office in Tavistock Street. My Landlady Mrs Gibbins is too ill to attend today. I never went out on the dates mentioned until the Friday evening I went to the Post Office before tea and paid for some bread and bought the 10shillng Order “D”. I never had the other Orders in my possession until Saturday last. As to the mark on the packet of paper produced I did that for a bit of amusement from a fortnight to 3 weeks ago. [cross examined] My wages are 15shillings a week paid weekly. On Friday the 17th inst I was paid 15shillings and also on the Friday before. I am indebted to a Mr Wilkinson of Hockliffe. The envelope produced marked “E” is in my handwriting and also the letter produced marked “F”. I wrote the letter on the 14th inst. The instalment then due was £2. On the Friday night I received my wages of 15shillings and bought the Order for 10shillings. The Gentleman I met was coming from Bedford. I did not notice the stamps at all. The mark on the paper is exactly the same size as the stamps on the Orders. statement of the accused: I do not desire to say anything further than what I have given in evidence. Letter from the accused: To My Lord May it please my lord to read this my defence, I, Samuel Norman, am groom in the employment of Mr Horrell of Oakley, whose house is situated about one mile and a half from Oakley Post office and although (unfortunate for me) the Postal Orders which were stolen between the 14th and 15th of February were found in my possession I did not steal them, a I did not go up the village to the Post Office during the whole of that week until Friday evening the 17th. On Saturday the 18th I obtained permission from my master to go home until Monday morning and as I was walking from Oakley to Bedford I had walked about 100 yards this side of the Fox and Hounds Public House, when I was stopped by a (gentleman by appearance) who asked me if I could oblige him by changing the Postal Orders now produced, being as I was going straight into town I did change them and he gave me threepence for obliging him, I changed one at Clapham, one at a sweet shop in Tavistock St. Bedford and the other one I took to the Post Office in Tavistock St which I should not have done had I stolen them, there I was informed that the Postal Order was a stolen one and was asked to go and see the Post Master in High St, I went to the Post Office and waited nearly one hour but did not see the Post Master, having left my address and telling one of the men employed in the Post Office, I would call on Monday morning, I was allowed to go, but was arrested on Sunday morning, as regards those marks on the paper I made them, also several more on some more paper one evening in January after writing a letter, this is the first time I have been before a magistrate, therefore if I am convicted, being as I have now been in prison six weeks I wish to be dealt with as leniently as possible. Samuel Norman Item marked "A" - Postal Order No 876643 10shillings Item marked "B" - Postal Order No 883209 5shillings Item marked "C" - Postal Order No 051816 4shillings Item marked "D" - Postal Order No 094851 10shillings Item marked "F" - Letter To Mr & Mrs Wilkinson from Samuel Norman Oakley Bedford Dear Mr &Mrs Wilkinson I now write to say that it is not in my power to send any money to you just now, but all being well I shall be home in two or three weeks and will bring you some then, each week that comes I feel more sorry for what I have done, I did not seem to realise it at first but feel very miserable about it now not for owing you bad but for the sorrow and trouble I have been the means of bringing to so many but its too late now all I have to do is to keep myself nearer to him who doeth all things well, I shall stay with Mr Horrell until the spring and then find work nearer home as I could earn as much money up here as I am getting now and I have been informed Mr Horrell wont increase my wages (when) ever you change hands and were kind enough to give me another trial you would find me quite a different young man as its only since I left that I knew I had got such a good place and should be pleased to come for three shillings a week less than I was receiving from you, even if you felt you couldn’t trust me I would not mind going round with you and would promise faithful to keep from all strong drink, I will now conclude from your (etc) Samuel Norman Item marked "G" - Sleeve from a packet of 'Silurian' notepaper with ink mark rings

23 pages

item

Norman, Samuel,
Taylor, Sarah Eve,
Black, Martha Elizabeth Dudley,
Clarke, Hubert,
Lunnis, Walter Robert

OAKLEY, CLAPHAM, Clapham The Swan, Bedford Tavistock Street, Bedford Bower Street, Post Office, post master, confectioner, groom, stealing, postal orders