QSR1848/3/5/6-7

Depositions and examination - Samuel Gutteridge charged with stealing oats from William Irons, William Watson charged wtih being an accessory after the fact, and Robert Dimmock charged wtih receiving the oats.

24 April 1848

From: 1848 To: 1848

Richard How of Luton, labourer – he works for William Irons who is a farmer. Mr Irons has a barn under Warden Hills. On Wednesday night (19 April) he locked up the barn and took the key to Mr Waller who is Mr Irons’s bailiff. There were oats in the barn he had been threshing. They were black oats with now and then a white one in them and were not clean dressed. They were like those produced by PC Millard. Both the oats in the barn and those produced have many crow needles in them. Thomas Smith of Luton, labourer – he works for William Irons and had been threshing in the barn. He missed a quantity of oats from the heap on Thursday morning. About 5am on Thursday he was going to work at the barn and met Gutteridge coming from it towards Donkey Hall, with a sack on his shoulder which seemed pretty full. He noticed the sack had “W.” marked on it. It was the sack now produced by PC Millard. He also noticed a black mark along the centre of the sack. He told one of his master’s men he thought they had lost some oats again – they had lost some twice before. He said he had met Gutteridge and that made him think some were lost. Gutteridge asked him the time and said he had been getting some turnip tops. The oats produced seem like the oats that were in the barn. He thinks about ½ a quarter of oats were missing. John Millard of Luton, police constable [evidence against Gutteridge and Watson] – on morning of Thursday 20th he heard from William Irons that he had lost some oats. He went to High Town where he saw Gutteridge and Watson together. Gutteridge had something bulky in his pocket. When asked where he had been that morning Gutteridge said he had been getting some turnip tops out of Mrs Butlin’s field, which is in the direction of Mr Irons’ barn. Gutteridge said he had sold the turnip tops to different peoples. When he said they would go and see the parties to whom he had sold them Gutteridge said that he had not been anywhere, had been in bed all night and did not get up until after 6am. Gutteridge lifted up his frock and he found a sack in his jacket pocket, marked “W.J.W.”. There were a number of black oats sticking to the inside of the sack. Thomas Smith identified the sack as the one he saw Gutteridge carrying that morning, and also identified the oats. On Saturday 22 April he was at the cage and heard the prisoners talking together as follows: Dimmock to Watson: Will, you had better say you took them up into the loft for perhaps some one see you. Watson: I shan’t, I shall say I know nothing about them. Watson to Gutteridge: You stick to it that I know nothing about them for no one saw me with them. Dimmock to Gutteridge I told the policeman that you told me you had them in exchange for [??] and that they were all right. Gutteridge: I did not tell you so. I told you I had found them. Watson: Irons can’t swear that they came from his barn. There are more barns than his – who knows they did not come from Davis’. That’s where Smith saw you against. Gutteridge: They will not be allowed to swear to the [??] Watson: If they swear to it here they will at Bedford Watson said he would plead not guilty, Gutteridge asked what he should do and Watson told him to plead not guilty. He [Millard]had some conversation with Watson at the cage on Saturday 22. Watson said he got up about 6am on Thursday and saw Gutteridge coming down the back street with something on his back. Gutteridge called to him and Watson asked if he had turnip tops. Gutteridge said he had something better and had found some oats. Gutteridge asked Watson who he thought would buy them, and Watson said very likely Bob Dimmock. When Dimmock got up Gutteridge told him what he had found and asked him to buy them. Watson said he told Dimmock to buy them for they were cheap, which he did. John Millard of Luton [evidence against Dimmock] – on Thursday 20 April he went to Dimmock’s house, the Rising Sun public house at High Town, and asked if he had bought anything that morning from Gutteridge or Watson. Dimmock appeared very confused and hesitated, then said that they were there that morning as soon as he got up, and that Gutteridge asked if he would buy about a bushel of oats for 2s and a quart of beer. Gutteridge had said he had sold one bushel for half a crown and that Sam Taylor would have had them if he had any money. Gutteridge had said they were all right and that he had them in exchange for dung. Dimmock went upstairs to fetch some change. When he returned the oats were there. Dimmock said that the oats were in a sack up in the loft and there were none anywhere else. He then searched the premises and found some black oats in a pig trough in the yard, some in another pig trough in the stable, and some in a bag in the loft with some rabbits feeding on them. There were also more in a sack. There were black oats and not dressed, like the oats he found sticking about the inside of the sack he found in Gutteridge’s pocket. Thomas Smith identified them as similar to Mr Irons’ oats. On Saturday 22nd April he was at the cage and heard the prisoners talking together [as above]. John Keating of Luton, police constable – on Thurday he took Watson into custody and asked if he had seen Gutteridge that morning. Watson said he had. When asked Watson denied that Gutteridge had any oats with him, but on the way to the cage admitted that Gutteridge did have some. He asked how much Dimmock gave for the oats and Watson said very little. He heard Gutteridge and Watson talking in the cage: Gutteridge: Have they been to old Bobs? Watson: Yes Gutteridge: What did he say? Watson: They took the oats away and he told them he had bought them of you – he said they asked me if I knew anything about them and I told them I did not and I’ll know nothing and the less you know or have to say the better for you. Gutteridge: Oh I’ll know nothing. I’ll suffer death before they get anything out of me. Have they the oats here? Watson: They have and a sample from the barn as well. Gutteridge: Where did that fellow that Bob transported have the sheep from that time. Watson: From Mangrove Watson: If Bob has much to say about you Sam you can give him a stinger. Gutteridge: Yes that I can – he said it was that fellow in the morning that done it all. It was a good job he had not seen you with me then. Watson: It was but he did not see you near the barn Sam. Gutteridge: Not by a mile or more. There are many other barns about there besides Irons’. There are 5 of them at work in the barn Watson: Yes there is. On 22nd when Dimmock was in custody he heard the following conversation: Gutteridge: This is a bloody rum job. Dimmock: Hold your tongue. Gutteridge: Why the hell did you not get rid of them bloody things when you heard they took me. Dimmock: Watson told me it was not for that they took you or I would. Gutteridge: You ought to have chucked them into the well. Dimmock: Oh Sam I am lost. Gutteridge (to Watson): You stick to it fast Will that you had not been in my loft at all. Watson: Yes, that I will. Dimmock: I told them all that you had not but as to Sam it is of no use telling a lie about him they had him found out. Samuel Taylor of Luton, carpenter – on 20 April between 6 and 7am Samuel Taylor came into his barn and offered him a bushel and a half of oats. He refused to buy them because he thought they were stolen. After they left the yard he saw Gutteridge and Watson together at Dimmock’s house. Somebody tapped at the window. He went in and Gutteridge asked him to drink. Dimmock, Watson and Gutteridge were the only people in the room. Samuel Gutteridge – “I found them in the road”. William Watson – “I have nothing to say. I am not guilty.” Robert Dimmock – “I have nothing to say”.

item

Gutteridge, Samuel,
Irons, William,
Watson, William,
Dimmock, Robert,
How, Richard,
Smith, Thomas,
Millard, John,
Taylor, Samuel,
Butlin

LUTON, Luton Donkey Hall, Luton High Town, stealing, receiving stolen goods, oats, farmer, bailiff, threshing, farm labourer, police constable, Luton Rising Sun, carpenter