QSR1846/2/5/16-19

Depositions and examination - John Millard, Thomas Millard, James Coles and Thomas Hardwick charged with stealing a quantity of larch fir chips, value 6s, from William Handscomb at Husborne Crawley on 19 March 1846

20 March 1846

From: 1846 To: 1846

William Hirdle of Aspley Guise, carpenter – he is foreman for William Handscomb of Aspley Guise who is a contractor supplying sleepers and fences for railways. He has large quantities of fir timber lying in several plantations in the neighbourhood and employs men to saw the timber up on the spot. One place where the sawyers have been working is Sandy Lane Plantation in Husborne Crawley. The four sawyers there are John and Thomas Millard, Hardwick and Coles. The sawyers have no right to sell chips or anything else. He has said so himself to every one of them. These orders had been given carefully and distinctly as Mr Handscomb had had great quantities taken away. The value of 4 small cart loads of chips as described by the police constable would be 5s. It is optional with the master if a sawyer it to have chips or not. If the sawyers have chips the wages are less. It is a matter of agreement. There is no doubt in this case that the men were not to take the chips. Handscomb has not sold any that he knows of. James Parrott of Aspley Guise, police constable – last night about 8pm he saw Mr Handscomb in Crawley who directed his attention to some chips lying on the side of the road against Herbert’s garden gate. He saw some children taking the chips into Herbert’s house. Herbert was stacking the chips int eh barn. H asked where Herbert had them from – Herbert said his son bought them from Handscomb’s sawyers. Herbert acted quite open about them and he had no reason to suspect he knew anything wrong about them. He saw William Herbert the son in the barn who said he had bought them from Hardwick, Coles and the Millards, and had bought some before. William Herbert said he understood the sawyers had the chips to sell. He produces one of the chips, which is larch fir and weighs near 10 lbs. Herbert said there were four small cart loads. He went to Hardwick last night, who said he had not sold any. He took Hardwick to Mr Handscomb, who said Hardwick had no leave to take any away. William Herbert of Husborne Crawley, labourer – he lives with his father Thomas Herbert. Some weeks ago he was asked by Hardwick and Coles who were then sawing for Mr Handscomb at Doan Hill Plantation to buy some chips. He bought a barrow full for 4d. Yesterday he went to the sawyers in Sandy Lane Plantation. They were at dinner. Some of them asked if he wanted to buy any chips. He agreed to fetch them away that evening if he could get a horse and cart. All four of them took part in dealing with him. John Millard said if he did not get a horse and cart he was to call out to them “no go”, but if he got one he should just go at night. All four said they would help him load the chips. He went soon after 6 and they were all gone. The boy Walker was there and John Coles who was morticing the posts, but he had nothing to do with it. He told the boy to go after the sawyers and ask if they were coming to help him. The boy came back and told him John Millard said he could not help but he was to have 2 good loads. He wheeled the chips out of the plantation. The boy Walker helped him to load them. Plenty of people saw him taking them away. He thought the sawyers were allowed to sell them. He took from both pits and had 4 small cart loads. All 4 sawyers acted as if the chips were theirs. He showed what he took to PC Parrott. William Handscomb of Aspley Guise, nurseryman – It is his rule not to allow any sawyer he employs to take a single chip, and he tells each one so when he engages them. He does not allow it to ensure that the timber is not cut improperly. He believes the chip now produced has been cut improperly on purpose. He believes it would have made a good pile, or part of three good piles, and has been purposely wasted. He cannot say when he said to each of the sawyers individually that they were not to have the chips, but it is his rule to say so to each on engaging them. He believes he has about 60 at work in different parts. Charles Walker of Ridgmont, labourer – he has been working as wedge boy for Hardwick and Coles at Sandy Lane Plantation. About dinner time yesterday William Herbert came to the pits and asked if he could have some chips. Herbert spoke to Hardwick and John Millard who were the top sawyers. Both said he might have 2 loads if he liked. He did not hear anything about money. Herbert came after 6 with a wheelbarrow. The Millards had gone home, and Hardwick and Coles left just as Herbert was coming. Hardwick told him to stay and help Herbert load the chips, which he did. Herbert brought a cart and pony and donkey. He helped to load and so did a lot more boys. He thinks Herbert took 3 carts full. The wheelbarrow was to take the chips out of the Plantation into the close where the cart was. Herbert told him to go after the sawyers and ask if he was to have the chips from both the pits. He ran after them and caught them. They were all together. He told them what Herbert said. John Millard and Tom Hardwick said Herbert was to have them from both pits and was to have 2 good loads. It was when he ran after the sawyers that Hardwick told him to stop and help load the chips. John Millard – he did not mention anything about the chips to Herbert, who came and asked if they had any. They said if he came at night he might have one load. They sent word by their boy that Herbert was not to come. There was no agreement of price or where Herbert was to have them. It was their privilege to have the chips. He knows his master never denied them. Hindle told them not to let women that come have them, but he never thought they did not have power to sell them if they pleased. The chip produced is an unusual one. If they have done wrong he is very sorry. He understood they were allowed them as they dug the pit and worked away from home. Thomas Millard – what his brother says is the truth. Neither Mr Handscomb nor his foreman ever denied the chips to them. They sent word back with the boy that Herbert was not to have the chips, and he told the boy to go home. He has worked for Handscomb for 4 or 5 months and has never had a denial. When he first worked for him Handscomb said he would not give up the chips then, but wouldn’t say he would not give them to them when they had done the work. Thomas Hardwick – they were altogether and he says the same as the others. He has worked for Handscomb on and off for 7 years and has never had any chips denied him before. Hindle had told them not to let the women have them, but never said the chips did not belong to them. He has had chips before. They had 1s a score for rails then. Now they have 1s 6d a score but the rails are much larger and stronger. James Coles – what the others have said is the truth. He never had a denial to have the chips and has worked for Handscomb for nearly 4 months. All he heard Hindle say was to keep the women away.

item

Millard, John,
Millard, Thomas,
Coles, James,
Hardwick, Thomas,
Handscomb, William,
Hirdle, William,
Parrott, James,
Herbert, William,
Walker, Charles,
Herbert, Thomas

HUSBORNE CRAWLEY, ASPLEY GUISE, RIDGMONT, Aspley Heath Sandy Lane, stealing, wood, fir, carpenter, police constable, nurseryman, foreman, sawyer, railways, fencing